Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Miami Meltdown: Tempers Flare As Pacers Hammer Heat

Self-Indulgence Sunday: How Is Club vs. Country Even a Debate?!

Russell Teibert beats Sheanon Williams off the dribble. Teibert left the game early to join Canada's U-20 national team, but not everybody cares about their country that much. (Photo by Drew Hallowell/Getty Images)

It's become trendy among some Canadian fans to see international duty as an inconvenience rather than an opportunity. And I have no idea what the hell is up with that.

As you read this article, Canada's under-20 national team is playing its most important games of the year. They're in Guatemala taking on the CONCACAF U-20 Championship, and in so doing hoping to qualify for this summer's U-20 World Cup. The U-20 World Cup isn't the biggest tournament in the world but it matters (or, at least, it matters as much as anything in sports matters). If nothing else, it's a chance for Canada's young men to test their mettle against the best in the world at their age group. Qualifying for, and succeeding in, this tournament should be a major objective of Canadian soccer. Unfortunately for us, this year's crop of U-20s has had some mediocre results and seems to need all the help they can get.

The Vancouver Whitecaps organization has four players representing Canada: from the Residency it's defender Derrick Bassi, midfielder/forward Ben Fisk (the youngest player on the team), and forward Coulton Jackson. From the first team it's midfielder/Canadian soccer Jesus Russell Teibert. Toronto FC also contributes three players: defenders Doneil Henry and Ashtone Morgan and midfielder Matt Stinson.

At least, they did contribute three. Last week Toronto head coach Aron Winter called back Henry and Morgan because of "injury concerns". These concerns were so serious that Henry didn't even make the bench against Portland and Morgan saw four minutes of play in garbage time when Toronto was whiling away a dominant 2-0 win. As it transpires, a suspension to Mikael Yourassowsky means that Morgan might come in handy, but I'm going to be controversial and say that Winter didn't have the psychic powers to see that coming. Henry has since returned to the final 20-man roster but it's questionable whether Winter will keep his word and let Henry go.

Now, I'm not here to give my opinion on whether recalling Henry and Morgan was right or wrong because, um, I already did that. Frankly, the point isn't even whether you think Toronto FC was right or wrong taking Morgan and Henry back. It's a subject on which reasonable people can disagree. I freely admit that I wouldn't be so annoyed if it weren't for Toronto's behaviour at the 2009 Gold Cup, the 2010 Honduras friendly, and their general (but not universal) reluctance to give their players up for the national team when not absolutely forced to. You may feel differently, you may think the U-20 World Cup isn't worth worrying about, okay. I've had that argument and I'm not trying to rehash it.

What I found interesting is the way it brought up the old club-vs.-country debate. Fans of Toronto FC will remember a World Cup qualifier in 2008 when Toronto was playing on the same day as Canada: so stripped by players called up to CONCACAF teams, Toronto was forced to play the likes of scout Tim Regan and USL PDL player/general asshole Rick Titus. Given that Canada lost that game (lost it to a team, Honduras, which had taken another Toronto FC star in Amado Guevara), it didn't work out well for anybody. International soccer in Canada seldom does. And that gives way to an odd twist on the old "club vs. country" debate: when the country is Canada, a weird number of supporters from coast to coast care a lot less.

I'm not even referring to the old fact that born-and-raised Canadians cheer for Italy because Italy is good, er, I mean, they had an Italian grandfather who fought with Mussolini. Although that pisses me off. I'm referring to the way some fans of soccer in Canada treat the Canadian team as less worthy than others. We expect our clubs to release players to other national teams without complaint, but Canada? They're just Canada. Come on, they're not going to win anyway.

Since I'm writing about it, you can probably guess what I think of that attitude already: I think it's crazy.

Star-divide

This isn't the first time I've given thought to this. Last summer, for example, Canada's senior men's team played home friendlies for the first time in many years: they took on Peru at BMO Field and Honduras at Stade Saputo. They were both highly credible opponents, and both games were taking place in cities with large, established soccer fanbases. Yet attendance was disappointing. Plenty of excuses were mooted (ticket prices in Toronto were high, for example, but then again Toronto FC fans are used to high ticket prices). Ultimately, whatever the reason, it was a let-down. Yet nobody doubts there were more than enough raucous soccer fans in Toronto and Montreal to fill the stadiums and then some.

This Canadian U-20 team business seems to have many of the same roots. It's not just Toronto fans, I hasten to say: you can hear a few Whitecaps supporters grumbling about sacrificing Teibert to the Canadian U-20 team. Teibert has been a key part of the Whitecaps' fortunes this season; when he was substituted off against Philadelphia you could immediately see the Whitecaps sag. But Teibert, in all probability, will miss our next match against Sporting Kansas City on international duty while the Whitecaps are desperately short of wingers as it is. Not everybody in Vancouver is happy with doing their bit for Queen and country. What I haven't heard is corresponding grumbling about the absence of Omar Salgado: Salgado is playing in the same tournament with the United States U-20s and, now that Eric Hassli is suspended, would come in very handy indeed. But only the CSA is treated as an imposition, while the USSF is just life.

This attitude isn't universal but it's disconcertingly widespread. I mean, at least Canadians who cheer for a non-Canadian national team are being honest: they don't want to cheer for a country that loses pretty much all the time. But whining about clubs trying to support that country, to make it a national program that wins games instead of just getting moral victories, while giving other nations a free pass?

This isn't a majority opinion. But the fact that it's held at all speaks volumes about Canadian soccer's inferiority complex.

Comment 14 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Yup

Quick comment -I agree with your post on all accounts. Whereas I admit sometimes i struggle with losing key players (eg Demerit) for friendlies..you can bet he comes back felling good and playing even better after tieing Messi and firends.

by RHM on Mar 27, 2011 10:43 AM PDT reply actions  

I am English

and cheer for England. And I still think club should come first. If Rooney has even the slightest little knock England can eff off. United pay his salary. We should get the right of first refusal. International footy is fun but in my opinion it is a luxury.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.

by Section 312 on Mar 27, 2011 10:59 AM PDT reply actions  

Sports is a luxury. I don’t watch soccer because I want to see players get paid, I watch it because I want to see the finest athletic competition. And international soccer is better than domestic soccer. Moreover (although this doesn’t apply in England, obviously), in Canada the national assocation’s role in developing players and bringing them to light is huge. Toronto FC may pay Ashtone Morgan’s salary, but Ashtone Morgan got to TFC Academy because of CSA training.

Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.

by Benjamin Massey on Mar 27, 2011 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He must have missed

the World Cup final. I wouldn’t even call that football. In fact the whole world cup was poor, in terms of quality of play, except for about 3 or 4 matches. I will take a CL final or a big domestic game in England, Spain or Italy (or a dozen other countries) over an international any day of the week.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.

by Section 312 on Mar 28, 2011 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh the World Cup final was very poor. Hell of a tournament, though; that’s what made the crappy climactic game so shocking.

Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.

by Benjamin Massey on Mar 28, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wasn't a fan to be honest

and I watched a lot of games. Drama is nice but quality football is better. And I didn’t see a ton of it.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.

by Section 312 on Mar 28, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am a club over country guy, but at least I am consistent. Three things have influenced my opinion on this issue:

1. With the flexibility FIFA allows with the grandfathering rule and acquiring-residency, it feels like int’l soccer is a mercenary thing with the best players angling for the best countries (de Guzman being the strongest example I can think of but also Rossi for Italy/US)

2, Closely related to #1, it doesn’t feel like soccer has national styles like it used to; couple that with #1 and sides just don’t feel…well, national in a way that is meaningful to me.

3. FIFA is so hopelessly corrupt, making billions off the backs of clubs while lining the pockets of bureaucrats – I just can’t get behind int’l soccer anymore.

I like it when Canadian players do well, and I cheer for our nats when they play, but I just don’t care about int’l soccer. =S

by Jeremy Avery ירמיהו on Mar 27, 2011 11:14 AM PDT reply actions  

I think that it is debatable

that international soccer is “better” than domestic soccer. Club teams have so much more time to play together that I would take them over the national team more often than not, but international soccer is hugely important for the health of the game in general.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, would promote soccer in Canada more than the national team having a decent performance in the World Cup (or just getting to the the World Cup) because only the national team can seep into the consciousness of people who aren’t fans anyway.

Having said all that the way that MLS deals with international fixtures still stinks.

by Russell Berrisford on Mar 27, 2011 11:34 AM PDT reply actions  

International soccer may get people more emotionally invested than most club soccer, just due to larger, more concentrated fan bases (the whole country, rather than just a city or part of a city), but quality-wise, the top clubs would usually beat even the best national teams. Club talent is mercenary when there are no salary limits.

Since the club pays the players, I think the club should get first call on them. If Teibert gets hurt in one of the U-20 games, I’ll be pissed. My team, who I do pay to see, lose out on a valuable player due to non-Whitecaps activity. I feel the same way about Salgado; for me it isn’t dependent on the country represented.

by NS_Cix on Mar 27, 2011 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

my emotional attachment

to Manchester United is VASTLY greater than any emotional attachment to the 3 Lions.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.

by Section 312 on Mar 28, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

No doubt, but what I was getting at was more along the lines of whether you’re more invested in a team England match, or say West Brom against Blackpool. Remember that most BPL matches don’t feature your favourite team.

by NS_Cix on Mar 28, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

In Section 312’s defense, even as a die-hard national team supporter who would trade a Whitecaps win for a Canada goal any day, I’m much more interested in Chivas USA vs. Sporting Kansas City than I am in Grenada vs. Guatemala.

Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.

by Benjamin Massey on Mar 28, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would rather watch

a league match from any of the major European or South American leagues than any International game not icluding England. And if England were on TV at the same time as a Glasgow derby or an El Classico I wouldn’t be watching England.

"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
Nucks Misconduct's Prodigal Son, Chief Curmudgeon, Chief Hunk, Chief Charmer and Chief Drama Queen.

by Section 312 on Mar 28, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Eighty Six Forever is a blog about Major League Soccer's Vancouver Whitecaps and the other aspects of this fantastic, unappreciated sport in western Canada from the grass roots to the national team.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Soccer_ball_small
Sunday Morning Scribe: Dallas Musings
Soccer_ball_small
2012 Whitecaps: Near Fatal Attraction
Soccer_ball_small
Fear and Loathing in Vancouver
Soccer_ball_small
The Matrix
Soccer_ball_small
On Whitecaps, Wizards, and Wondo
Soccer_ball_small
Here's to You Willie!
Curious-george_small
Patience young padawan, Patience
Soccer_ball_small
Low Net Worth
Curious-george_small
Fantasy Fun Anyone?
Img_5850__1__small
Tempering Optimism

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

Authors

Img_5850__1__small Jay Duke

Soccer_ball_small Rob R. Scott